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Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

  • 1.  Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-27-2016 09:54 AM

    Is the apparent viscosity of crude oil water mixtures (40-70% range) different in HDPE piping compared to normal carbon steel piping ? 

    We are seeing higher pressure drops in HDPE piping compared to steel. Velocity in pipe is 0.3-0.8 m/s range, temperature 85-90F range and are wondering what the cause could be. Already checked if the line is plugged, velocity in HDPE piping can be ca 20-60% lower than in corresponding steel pipe. 

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    Henk Chin A Lien
    Sr Advisor (Upstream)
    Staatsolie Maatschappij Suriname NV
    Flora
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  • 2.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-28-2016 12:40 AM

    I don't think the apparent bulk viscosity changes. Maybe preferential wetting with oil for HDPE (vs water for steel) and resulting liquid films with different properties at the wall? Does the difference go away below 40% watercut, and is it velocity dependent?

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    Richard Arntzen
    Sr Process Engineer
    A/S Norske Shell
    Oslo



  • 3.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-28-2016 01:47 PM

    Thanks for the feedback Richard.

    I also think the wettability with oil for HDPE might be different compared to oil with steel, which might or might not (significantly) effect the apparent viscosity, but couldn't find any information on this.

    We don't have data below 40% because the amount of production flowing through this pipe section in the field (crossing a river) doesn't have less water. In other parts in the field we saw a lower apparent viscosity at higher velocities (but the water cut wasn't exact the same), unfortunately we don't have the data to compare HDPE with steel pipe at different velocities values for the production flow of the same area (in practice this would mean laying pipes with different ID sizes, HDPE and steel, in the field and sending the area production through it). The difference in velocity between HDPE and steel is because the ID of the newly laid HDPE pipe (11.154") is different compared to the previous steel pipe (9.75"). 

    Henk

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    Henk Chin A Lien
    Sr Advisor (Upstream)
    Staatsolie Maatschappij Suriname NV
    Flora



  • 4.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-29-2016 06:21 AM

    Henk, some (idealized) data from the web:

    Contact angle water-polyethylene: 96° https://www.accudynetest.com/polytable_03.html?sortby=contact_angle

    Contact angle water-steel: 40-70° https://www.ohio.edu/engineering/corrosion/research/upload/8215-11.pdf

    Contact angle oil-steel: 150° https://www.ohio.edu/engineering/corrosion/research/upload/8215-11.pdf

    Contact angle alkanes-polyethylene: 0° (complete wetting): Persson, Bo "Sliding friction - physical principles and applications" pp.135 [can be found in google books]

    So preferential wetting looks probable. Quanitfying the effect will be difficult though - you might have surface active components, your solid surfaces might not be clean etc.

    Regards,

    Richard

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    Richard Arntzen
    Sr Process Engineer
    Norske Shell E&P A/S
    Oslo



  • 5.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-29-2016 07:59 AM

    Thanks Richard,

    Basically we have to do some fundamental lab testing to see how much impact the wettability oil steel vs oil HDPE has on the apparent viscosity (perhaps inversion point water continuous to oil continuous). Hoped that this was done already, since the use of HDPE in the oil industry has increased. 

    Henk

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    Henk Chin A Lien
    Sr Advisor (Upstream)
    Staatsolie Maatschappij Suriname NV
    Flora



  • 6.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-28-2016 03:16 AM

    I guess you should check the friction coefficients of the different materials.

    Steel has usually the lowest ones.

    Then it really depends on the internal surface quality and how smooth it is.

    Any other variable under control (valves, flow rate, properties of the fluid being transported, etc..) ?

    Regards

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    Andrea Mauro
    Product Manager
    Innospec Oilfield Services
    Ellesmere Port - UK



  • 7.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-28-2016 01:54 PM

    Thanks for the feedback Andrea.

    Friction coefficient of HDPE should be less (the pipe is smooth and internal corrosion should not be an issue), except where the individual HDPE pipe sections are fused together (similar to welding individual steel pipes). The other variables are basically already taken in account for (larger effective length).

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    Henk Chin A Lien
    Sr Advisor (Upstream)
    Staatsolie Maatschappij Suriname NV
    Flora



  • 8.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-28-2016 08:22 AM

    I agree with Andrea. But also, the line may not be plugged but you could have deposits in the line especially at bends and along long straight sections which impedes the flow a little more. If you have sand, you need to determine the critical velocity to avoid having deposits in the line as well as minimizing potential erosional problems. And this velocity differs for various water cut ranges

    Regards,

    Bonaventure

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    Bonaventure Ani
    Field Engineer OML99
    Total E&P Nigeria Ltd.




  • 9.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-29-2016 02:50 AM

    Hmm! Tricky.

    Presence of oil-wet particulates in an oil-water stream should shift the transition point (to water-continuous) to higher water cut; presence of water-wet ones should do the reverse.
    Getting over the viscosity hump and into water-continuous generally leads to a large drop in viscosity of the stream.

    So, I'm wondering whether the presence of a strongly oil-wet surface might be shifting the transition point  to higher water cut, which is showing up as a higher viscosity fo the mixture. I just cannot get my head around why that would be such a large effect with a tubing surface, which should have much lower surface area than a large number of entrained particulates.

    Something to consider because it would produce an effect in the direction you are observing; I'm just not convinced it's of sufficient magnitude to account for what you are seeing.

    On the other hand, you present no statistics to indicate your confidence in the magnitude of this effect. I can imagine it might be quite difficult, comparing different pipelines with different ages (corrosion effects for the steel, etc.), apparent liquid velocities, water cuts, scaling tendencies, sanding tendencies (?), etc. Not easy to de-convolute statistical signifiance in such a system without a large number of pipelines.

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    Dario Frigo
    Global Prod. Chem. Consultant
    Plinius Chemical Consulting
    Icod



  • 10.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 06-29-2016 08:02 AM

    Thanks Dario,

    Basically we have to do some fundamental lab testing to see how much impact the wettability oil steel vs oil HDPE has on inversion point water continuous to oil continuous and as a result on the apparent viscosity of the field conditions. Hoped that this was done already, since the use of HDPE in the oil industry has increased. 

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    Henk Chin A Lien
    Sr Advisor (Upstream)
    Staatsolie Maatschappij Suriname NV
    Flora



  • 11.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 04-25-2019 03:59 AM
    Dear Henk,

    I apologize for such late response... How are you, it was 3 years ago... are you still looking for solutions to viscosity?

    Thanks & Regards,
    Dauren

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    Dauren Tukenov
    Aktobe
    zaga@nur.kz
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  • 12.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 07-01-2016 09:37 AM

    Henk,

    Nice discussion.  Have you considered the differences in pipe material roughness as well  and possible fluid wall interactions?  Also how stable is the oil water dispersion?  Depending on shear mixing and line path complexity the reproducibility for line flow conditions may be within +/- 20% at least.  The assumption seems to be the oil water mixture is forming a stable emulsion that has a discrete inversion point.

    Regards,

    Jeff

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    Jefferson Creek
    Letton Hall Group
    Chevron Retired
    KatyTX



  • 13.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 03-07-2021 11:32 PM

    More suggestions:

    - Larger diameter HDPE pipe facilitating demulsification at lower velocity for this particular oil and temperature, resulting in stratified flow and causing higher water holdup in river crossing low spot and higher observed dP. Restriction is not solid (as wax) but hydraulic (water) leaving less effective area for flow. Pipe oversized for the flowrate.

    Less likely possibilities also considered:
    - different thermal expansion / contraction diameter reduction of nonmetallic pipe

    - diameter reduction of nonmetallic pipe under river water hydrostatic pressure

    - possibly gelling of oil (albeit unlikely at such high water cut and at 85-90°F)

    This would make an interesting case study and presentation for SPE FTS if someone were to compare a range of software tools vs field observed information.



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    Taras Makogon
    Dhahran
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  • 14.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 03-08-2021 01:17 AM
    There are several possibilities:
    1. Surface chemistry between fluids and pipe layer. This may lead to
    increased shear stress.
    2. Heat transfer characteristics between steel and HDPE and any impact on
    apparent viscosity.
    3. Thermal expansion and contraction may lead to flow separation, minor
    loss, etc.

    Regards,
    Aziz Rahman
    TAMUQ

    On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 8:41 AM Taras Makogon via Society of Petroleum




  • 15.  RE: Apparant viscosity of oil water mixtures in steel - vs HDPE pipe

    Posted 03-09-2021 01:33 AM
    Guys,

    The original posting is quite old (June 2016) and it is my understanding
    that there has been a lot more usage of HDPE pipe in the interim,
    especially in salt-water disposal service.

    If you want to investigate further, you might want to repost the question
    to the P,F&C and/or the Production communities to see what the big users
    and pipe suppliers/installers in the US and Canada have to say based on
    their recent experience.

    FYI we have been trying to get someone to write a section on the topic for
    PetroWiki and this might be a useful aide-memoire to those who were trying
    to find a volunteer from one of the major suppliers.

    Regards
    Bob
    R. M. Pearson PEng
    Technical Director
    Glynn Resources Ltd.
    (+1) 5878946255